Marriage on Mission | Francis & Lisa Chan

So, we wrote a book recently, uh, You and Me forever. And I know there are already a million marriage books out there, but I guess I'd been convicted about something for for a long time. And that that was when I would read this book, the Bible, and I would read everything that Jesus said about marriage and family.

I mean, imagine if you just took every verse where Jesus mentioned marriage or father, mother, wife, kids, and you just wrote down what Jesus said. I think it'd be a far cry from a lot of the things that we say about marriage or emphasize regarding marriage that in no way is he saying I don't want you to enjoy your marriage or this or that or whatever else but what's the focus of those passages?

Um and and it's this idea that in light of eternity eternity changes everything. The fact that there's a hell, that changes everything. The fact that one day, any second, our our lives are going to be over. This could be my last day on earth. That changes everything because I'm going to stand before a holy God and I'm not judged just on how happy were you two.

I don't see that in scripture. I I I I see passages like in uh in in 1 Corinthians 7 uh how Paul says in in verse 29, this is what I mean, brothers, the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none.

And those who mourn as though they were not mourning. Those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing. Those who buy as though they had no goods. And those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away.

Then later on in verse 35, he says, "I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord." Okay, those are heavy words. I'm like, how come marriage books don't contain that?

How come we don't include verses like those who have wives should live as though they had none? you know, we just don't give. What I'm saying is the thing you'll you'll see is if you read this book over and over and over again, you'll see that we tend to emphasize certain passages and ignore a lot of them.

I mean, really, if you look at this book, I mean, it's over 50% judgment, right? You start reading through the Old Testament and you're like, man, I mean, even in the Old Testament, you know how they would they would split up Israel and they put half of Israel on Mount Ebal, half on Mount Garism.

Why? It's like, okay, you and E, I want you to pronounce a judgment, then you pronounce a blessing, you pronounce a judgment, then you pronounce a blessing, right? Every prophet was to warn about judgment and then also the promises of following. Those were the two things they would all do.

And then Jesus comes to the sermon on the mount. He goes, "Blessed are those." And then he goes, "Woe to those." And then you get to the book of Revelation and it talks about the blessing of knowing. But that's such a small part. And then the rest of it's the wrath, the judgment, and and and it's it just seems like if if it's half and half, why are 99% of the messages just about the promises?

And why are so many of the sermons about marriage really just about a couple of verses? is and a lot of times those are even taken out of context. I mean, Ephesians 5 really is about Christ in the church. And and I guess a lot of it was when I'd look at our marriage, I go, "Man, it's been 22 years, seven kids."

And honestly, we don't fight a lot. And our marriage is awesome and our kids are awesome and the family just was great. and and and it was kind of going why is it so good we don't even do all the love languages and stuff like how how why is it that I'm so in love with the kids and they're so in love with me and our family's good and we don't work at it that much and we realize you know what it's because from day one we've looked at these passages like 1 Corinthians 7 and said you know what there's something bigger than us >> bigger than you and me is more important than us having a happy marriage is that we have to make as many disciples as we can while we're on this earth.

Like there's a purpose, there's a goal to our lives. And what we found is as you pursue God's mission together, which Paul says, man, that's the goal is to secure undivided devotion to the Lord. And that whole 1 Corinthians 7 is about this this this mission that we're on.

That's why you I we don't have time to cry. We don't have time to fight. We don't have time to, you know, it's it's like some of this stuff you've got to figure out for the sake of the mission. And u we realize, wow, it's by both of us focusing on the mission that somehow this works out so much better.

It's like it's like a sports team, you know, like I you know when you watch the Kansas City Royals, you know? Yeah, that's kind of boring, but uh you you know how no one really wanted you guys to win, but uh it it is it's like once they won, right?

Everyone's jumping on each other, you know? It's every championship they're just hugging on each other. What? Why is it because they sat in circles and held hands and tried to improve their relationships? No, it's because they were after something. They were pursuing a common goal. And when they hit it and they're both, you know, when everyone's clicking, we won the championship, it's it was the byproduct.

Their unity was a byproduct of going after a mission, a common mission. And and I think a lot of the reason why we do this is we're not all focused on the same mission. And so when you get on board like that, like a good sports team, you see the unity, but the unity is in something they pursue.

It's the byproduct of being on mission together. So that that was kind of the idea of the the book was I would think of Lisa and I go, "Yeah, you know, I want us to have a great marriage, but that's secondary. Um, you're going to stand before God.

And I think we so underestimate what that moment is going to be like. And I want God because I love you. I want God to say to you, "Well done, Lisa. You did what you were supposed to do on this earth. Come enjoy." And not and again that I'm not saying that that's how she gets saved.

I'm saying at that moment that that idea of well done like you did it. You didn't waste those years on that earth. And I guess for too many years, I feel like in the church, the goal is to have a happy family, a happy Christian family that doesn't swear.

And you know, I mean, let's face it, it's like, oh, what a great family. You know, they love each other and they don't swear. And I just go, man, is that what I see in the Bible? Is that what we've reduced this to? And then especially with where our world is going, I just think about our kids and the environment they're going to grow up in.

Is that going to be enough for them for them to go, "No, I know God's real and I'll follow this thing to the end and I'll take whatever punishment, torture I need to take because I know this is real." But I'm talking to >> Yeah. The verse I have been thinking of as you're talking is it's so simple, but we miss it.

It says, "Seek first his kingdom and all these things will be added unto you." And what we do is we seek first the good marriage or we seek first to be an awesome mom or dad instead of seeking first his kingdom and believing that out of that pursuit our marriage, our parenting, our ministry.

Everything will come from that one focus and that one pursuit to seek first his kingdom. And then I just think of a broad verse. We all know it like Colossians 3:23. Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Whatever you do, whether you're eating, you're drinking, you're being married, you're trying to parent, whatever you're doing, do it all for the glory of God.

And I just want to ask you like, when is the last time you even thought about, am I am I being married? Am I in this marriage for the glory of God? Or have I somehow forgotten that goal? That whatever I'm doing, it's for his glory. It's not about me.

It's not about him. When is the last time you really stopped and thought about that? Because I read an interesting quote from a friend of ours and she made my mind think a little differently when she used the phrase, "God's glory is at stake." And you can fill in the blank afterward.

God's glory is at stake in how you respond to this situation. God's glory is at stake how you work in your workplace and what kind of reputation you have. God's glory is at stake in your marriage and how you interact with your husband and how you respond to his leadership and how you choose to love and serve him.

God's glory is at stake and somehow that really raises the bar, right? And yet again we forget and we make everything so just what do you call this? Not lateral rather than vertical. >> Horizontal. >> Horizontal. >> You were doing well too. >> Oh, he and my older daughters always make fun of me because I'm just I have a lot of brain hemorrhages.

I'm not that smart. But what I'm trying to say is we make everything very horizontal rather than vertical. Everything become this focus is so off. And I want to read you this quote from our friend. It's Johnny Ericson. Tada. Some of you who are older probably have known her story.

Um she was a quadripollegic. She's been a quadripolgic for 40ome years now. >> Um she's in her 60s. But she says, "I realized that the stakes were far greater, far more immense and cosmic than merely my satisfaction with a wheelchair and its unpleasant baggage. I shifted my focus onto God.

His glory was at stake and that made my satisfaction in him, not satisfaction with the way things were, the real issue. It was no longer a matter of being content with his plan for my life. It was a matter of finding him utterly and supremely the source of all contentment.

This much to my delight would give him the greatest glory. Can you imagine waking up first of all and the minute your eyes pop open you can't even move your arms and legs. You are so heavily dependent on someone else just to get you out of the bed and onto the toilet and your hair brushed.

I mean, when I think about what she endures every day, just being in her presence makes you want to cry because you're thinking, "Wow, that's a heavy, heavy burden the Lord has given her." And she carries it so well. And her life is just this beautiful reflection and this call to all of us like, "Don't forget."

I mean, God's glory is so magnified in her life. And then here we are in our little marriages with our little petty fights and our he's not meeting my needs this way. And it's like really God's glory is at stake and our satisfaction. We have to find it so much in him, in who he is.

Yes, we need to love one another well to be an accurate reflection of Christ in the church. But I'm saying let's raise our eyes a little bit and let's let go of some of these things that we're just holding on to that are meaningless and we're harboring bitterness for what?

And we're hurting and we're taking away from the glory of God. If your marriage is full of joy and it's awesome and you're serving the Lord together, are you most satisfied in him? And if your marriage feels like it's full of pain and disappointment and friction, are you still satisfied in Christ? >> Yeah.

I think a lot of times, you know, like when we counsel couples, which I'm sure a lot of you guys do, you know, this is the issue we bring it back to is are you satisfied? You know, let's focus on you as individuals first. You know, the Bible says, "The Lord is my shepherd.

I shall not want." Does that describe you? Like, I am so in love with the God of the universe. Like, you know, like in that psalm, he says, "It's it's like I'm just overflowing. Like, I'm this cup that's overflowing and just just just get under me because like there's just so much splashing over because I understand what what it means that I'm I'm his son.

I'm his son. He calls me son. God, the creator of of the earth, calls me son, you know, when he sees me as pure because of what Jesus did on the cross and I had such an amazing time with him. Like I didn't even want to leave. It's like, oh, this is so good.

So good. So good. Like, is that who you are? Like you start your day with him. You're overflowing with him. And it's like, I don't need anything. Because what we find is a lot of times the reason why there's so much arguing is because we're needy. You you can't say the Lord's my shepherd.

I shall not want. You say, "Yeah, the Lord's my shepherd, but I still need a bunch of stuff. I'm not content. I'm not satisfied in him, and so I need you to satisfy me." And and so so many marriage problems are not really marriage problems. They're God problems.

Like, you're not satisfied in him. Man, I find people in terrible situations, but they're totally fine because they're satisfied in him. And you know what she was saying about God's glory. Like this is this is primary, seeking the kingdom first, pursuing his mission first. The thing that we don't talk about in the church is that you can have a fun yet worthless marriage.

There are a lot of happy couples that are absolutely worthless in the That's great. You guys having fun? Are you having fun at Disneyland? Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. But what are you doing? There's a war going on. How many disciples have you made? You know, did your neighbors have they heard the gospel from you?

Like what do you actually do? Like where do you see in scripture that it was just about you too? It's about No, we're accomplishing something. >> Did you lose your train of thought? >> Yeah, I did. I did. I was trying to think of an illustration right there and I couldn't think of one, so I had to make a mistake to make you feel better. >> Thank you. >> Just being lateral here.

I don't know. >> No, it's it's like Okay. It's like you don't really care if the Dallas Cowboys get along. You stink. It doesn't matter that you're all friends. You're not accomplishing what you're out there supposed to do. I don't care if you guys hold hands and you're buddy buddy.

You're not winning games. And I guess that's what I see in the church is like we just celebrate. Oh, look, that couple gets along. Great. But do they accomplish anything for eternity? You know, the goal is not just getting along. The goal is we're here for a reason. >> You know, that's one of the things I always say that I'm most grateful for about Francis is that he has really led the charge in our home uh to have an eternal mindset.

So, I'm I want to encourage two of you out there. I want to encourage the young husband and say, "Keep going. Keep pushing, keep giving your wife that bigger picture. Keep lifting her eyes back to the purpose and why you're here because that's what Francis has done for me over 22 years.

And there were times where there was a little resistance from me and there's times when it was very hard. I think of when he first went to Africa and he came home at this time. We had two kids and he's like, I we have got to do something.

I want to sell our home. I want to cut the square footage in half. I want to give stuff away. It's not okay that these kids over there are starving. And I'm kind of like, okay, well, I didn't go to Africa with you and I don't really want to give my things away.

And it was a real like heavy moment in our life because he's feeling like this burden and this weight from the Lord. Saw it with his own eyes. And now he's coming back and feeling like, "How do I get my wife on board?" And and I wasn't like, "Woohoo!

Yes, let's do it. You know, I was kind of I was like, I will do this, but I can't lie to you and say that I'm excited about it and that I want to do it. I feel like that would be a lie. And it was sad to have to admit that, but I had to be honest with him.

And I was like, I hope I gave him the impression that I was going to do it 100%. I just couldn't lie and say that I wanted to. And so we did. We went from a 2,000 square foot home to a 1,000 square foot home. Like friends were coming over and eventually I would be like, you know, do you want this thing that I love so much because you can have it, you know, to eventually being like, hey, do you like this?

Take it cuz I don't have room for it. Go ahead. You know, and it's like slowly the Lord just worked on my heart. You don't need it. You're not going to miss it. is like you think I mean God used that moment in my life as like this beautiful ripping away of my tie to the world.

Um we know when it says you're not of this world how do I believe that for me it took God saying just let it go and have to get rid of it and move into this tiny little place. And suddenly I felt not as attached to the world.

And suddenly it was like what what did I care about that thing for? It's ugly, you know. Uh I didn't miss it. But I didn't know it until I was on the other side of it. And there's so much beauty in just the surrender to my husband and the surrender to the Lord.

And so I want to encourage you young women too. Listen to your husbands. Let them lead you in that way. Um, we have got to have an eternal mindset in our lives and in our marriages because we don't want to be attached to this world and we don't want to lose sight and start going after all the things that everyone else in the world does.

It says, "Be a part of this crooked, twisted generation so your light will shine in the midst of it, right? In the midst of a twisted, crooked generation, your light shines." People are like, "Why are you getting rid of that? Why are you driving an old car? Why don't you care?

It's like because this isn't what I'm living for, people. One day I'm going to be with Christ and I'm going to have everything. >> Yeah. You know, it's like when we first bought a house, we did probably what everyone else here who's a homeowner did. You go to a loan officer or whatever and they tell you, "Here's the biggest house you can get.

Here's the most square footage. This is the biggest loan you can afford." So, what do you do? You get the most you can. Like, you don't even think about it. That's just the American way. Well, if I can afford that, then I'll get that. And you just get in this mode of, well, I buy as much as I can, I get as much house as I can.

And then you go, okay, did I get that from here? Cuz it seems like Jesus was the opposite. It was about him empty himself, making himself nothing, taking the form of a man, taking the form of a slave, you know, making himself obedient to death, even death on a cross.

Therefore, God highly exalted him. It it it was about this race to the bottom and and it was about you know what let me you know if you want to follow me then deny yourself pick up your cross and follow me. It was this idea of not let me grab all I can but let me really pursue him and let me empty myself and be like Jesus and let me see who's in need and and the joy that comes from that.

Like I said, a lot of this it's like the byproduct of not even trying to be close. It it's really about seeking the kingdom. Like what she said, seeking the kingdom first. For example, when we moved from Southern California, which we love that town, we love that church.

I that was a church we started in our home, you know, and we were there for 16 and a half years. I mean, these are our people. these, you know, but it was time and God was calling us to something new and it was scary. My my biggest fear, you know, after I found out that Lisa was sensing the same things cuz I kind of casually brought it up.

I just, you know, we're driving and I'm like, "Hey, you know, how are things?" you know, um, and what do you, you know, as you look at me and my gifting in my life, what do you think about, like, what do you see me doing for the rest of our lives?

And she says, well, I don't think we're supposed to stay in Seami Valley. I'm like, really? I go, that's crazy. That's what I've been thinking. You know, we started talking. It's like, wow, we're both kind of being moved the same way. And then what was insane, we're actually going to a conference for Johnny Ericson.

Tada to speak at her uh event. And right when we got there, there was this guy from our church. Okay, so we talked about this on the drive and I was scared, you know, I because it's like I have these thoughts that we're supposed to move and then I don't know how she's going to take it.

And uh and then she's feeling the same thing. We get to the hotel and this guy Jeff, I was like sick with the flu. So, I just went straight to my He's like, "Hey, hey." And I kind of just, "Hey," you know, and then went to my room and then he calls me in the room and he goes, "Hey, Francis, I know you're sick.

I just got to say something to you." I'm like, "All right." He goes, "Just go." I'm like, "What?" He goes, "And God just told me to tell you, you're free to go. Just leave. The church will be fine." What? He goes, "Hey," he goes, "You know, I've never given you a word like this.

I know, you know, we're not even really charismatic, but you know, hey, I mean, it was," he goes, "But," and this is crazy. I mean, I just had the conversation. No one else knew. This is us driving there talking about it. And then for this guy who I'd known for years and had never given me a word from the Lord to call me and find me and to say that, like, it was it was it was pretty awesome.

It was like this, okay, I'm not crazy. I was sensing this. Now my wife also thinks this. And then this guy flags me down that I've known for years to give me this message. But still, there was this fear because it's like, "Oh, but how am I going to tell my kids?

How am I going to tell Rachel who's 14 14 years old at the time that the only city and friends and everything she's ever known. How do you tell a freshman girl, hey, we're going to leave all of this and we don't know where we're going, you know?

But it was like, oh, but I got to seek the kingdom first. That was my biggest fear was like, "Oh man, but I got to just trust that if this is what God wants, that it's going to work out. I can't I can't just be about what would make her happiest at the moment.

I got to seek the kingdom first." And I just remember telling her and, you know, her crying and, you know, and and you know, everyone was crying in the house, you know, and we're we're just talking about it and just because these are this is our family. This is our city. this is this is all they know.

And um and I just remember uh one time when uh you know after she was you know taking a break from the hysteria uh I just remember her telling me she goes, "Dad, I I know you're doing the right thing." And she goes, "I'm so proud of you for doing the right thing."

And she goes,"I just think whenever wherever we land and whatever you're going through and wherever we go, I just I'm proud of you because I think you're going to be more like Jesus um when this is all said and done." And I was like, "Whoa." you know, and suddenly the one I was most afraid of, cuz freshman girls are scary, but the person I'm most afraid of suddenly becomes my biggest fan, like my biggest cheerleader.

And it was I guess that verse popped into mind. Not that that's a promise, but you just seek the kingdom and God knows what you want and the other things will be given to you. And and I'm not saying that that's always the happy story because Jesus says, "I didn't come to bring peace to your family.

I came to bring a sword. I'm I'm going to set father, you know, man against his uh mother-in-law, which you know that, you know, but but you know, all the other ones. It's just I I I it's it's just there's going to be a lot of friction because of me.

And I'm not saying that, hey, this is the way it happens every time if you follow the Lord. It was just one of those moments for me where was like the thing I was most scared of ended up becoming the greatest blessing. Um, >> well, how beautiful though too for children to actually see and witness that you love God more than them.

I mean that's ultimately what you are saying to them is God comes before you. So no matter how hard it is, if God has asked us to do this, then that is what we will do. And that's really hard when that little side of your not little but maybe the biggest side of our protective nurturing parental side is to think first about how it will affect the children and what might happen and man be able to set that aside and say no God if you ask us to do this then we will do it >> regardless of what it means and what we have to go through and deal with with our children.

Yeah, one of my heroes, uh, Brad Buer, Brad and Beth, uh, he was surfer guy from San Diego that just read about the great commission and, you know, his youth pastor told him about the unreached people group. So he and his wife moved to the jungles of Papa New Guinea, you know, and lived there for like 20s something years, learn a language, translate the New Testament into their language for the first time in history, establish a church that goes to this day, raised all their kids, was it four or five kids, four kids in the jungle.

And uh but he says one of the greatest things and he I mean just you know there were times when he's holding his child you know burning up with a fever out in the middle of the jungle thinking this kid's going to die like what are you doing got other times you know he's helicoptered out in a coma because of his sickness you know tribal people with bows and arrows right in their faces you know all of this stuff to get the gospel there but he says you know what I could look my kids in the eye when they turned 18 and I could look at each one of them and say, "Look, you saw how mom and I risked everything for the gospel.

Even your lives, there was nothing more beautiful than the gospel to us. Now go and do the same." It's like, "Wow." So, go look at your kids. And when I heard that, I'm like, "See, that's biblical. The kingdom is so much higher than all of this." And to hear someone say, 'Look, you saw how we risked our lives for this book, the truth of this book.

We didn't hold anything back from God. Do the same. And now three, I think three of his kids are back in the jungles of Papa New Guinea winning their own tribes to the Lord. And you go, okay, that's the type of legacy I want to have. See, those are the types of warriors that we need to be raising in our home. you know, not this, you know, what all the stats say of when they turn 18, they leave the church because they didn't see that in the home.

They didn't see that type of seriousness and um effort and sacrifice like we really believe in heaven. See, I don't know what you know, like when you hear the phrase happily ever after. I think we all have this picture in our mind of what does happily ever after look like to you?

You know, and it could be gosh, maybe being a grandparent and knowing that my kids, you know, are Christians and they they have Christian grandkids and just okay, we did it. But but but for me that the picture of happily ever after is when this is all done like man it'd be so cool one day to to have Lisa by my side and and to have our seven or however many kids we have by then you know like like when Christ returns and you know whatever whatever happens but and at that end saying I know she won't be my wife anymore.

I know my kids won't be my kids anymore, but I I actually believe our relationships will be deeper somehow, absent of sin and how God's going to work that out. I have no clue. I think it's going to be brilliant. We go, "Wow, I never would have thought of this, but his ways are so far beyond ours, but I just want to look them all in the eyes and and just be able to say one day, okay, my greatest hope is to one day look at them in the eyes in the presence of God and go, see, I told you it'd be worth it.

Didn't I tell you it'd be worth it? Didn't I tell you that whatever we sacrifice, and I don't know if some of them will die as martyrs. I don't know if we will. I don't know what it's going to be like. I just know in the end whatever we sacrifice is going to be worth it.

I just want to be with them forever and just go, gosh, see I told you you can never outgive them. You can't outserve him. We could never sacrifice. We got a little taste of that on the earth. And I knew this would be worth it one day. And I I I remember Lisa one time we were speaking at a marriage conference and she equated our lives to uh that show the the Amazing Race and she goes, you know, being married to Francis I feels like a lifelong episode of the Amazing Race where where she says, you know, we'll we'll have little victories, but we don't just sit there and celebrate.

It's a quick high five and then we got to keep running, you know, and that game where because you got to you got to get to the next station. You got to you got to keep going. And she goes, "And we don't have time to fight because the couples that fight you, you see, they lose the game.

They get disqualified. So it's like, man, we got to keep running. We got to keep running." And she goes, "There'll be a day to celebrate when we cross that finish line and collapse into his arms. Yeah, we're going to celebrate, but for right now, we have to keep running.

It it's not about just sitting down and playing house and creating a home for ourselves. This isn't our home. This is just a race that we're running from one station to the next. We don't have time to fight. We're on a mission. And I thought, man, that's such a great picture.

I mean, how many of you see your marriages that way? It's like, man, we're pairing up and we're running this race and we're running to win. And so so you know I celebrate you know like when she goes to you know speak at a women's conference and I hear about the lives that are changed or or or you know the the people that have lived in our home and seeing the change in these women's lives like everything that she you know does for the kingdom.

It it's like man right on right on. Let's just we celebrate because we're pursuing something together. And uh probably the the coolest thing recently was uh when she was pregnant with our last child, this was just like a little over a year ago, and an opportunity came up to foster uh a 16-year-old girl, you know, that was a drug addict, living on the streets, in and out of group homes, just a mess. and and you know for her big and I mean you weren't that big um just in the stomach.

Um >> thank you. >> You only look like you're three months pregnant. Thank you. >> I know it's awesome. And uh but even though she was pregnant uh and that's a when you're about to give birth to your sixth kid, is that the time to think, oh, let's adopt a 16-year-old?

And yet it was more her idea, you know, like no, we all it's it's never the perfect time and let's just do it. And to see her faith in that of it's crazy raising that many kids as it is and then taking someone in from that type of lifestyle and background and and telling our 14-year-old daughter, "Hey, you're going to get a a girl to bunk with that we need you to have an impact on."

And then, you know, I even took my daughter out. I think she's 14 or maybe 15 at the time. Just took her out to dinner to make sure she was okay with it all. And she didn't eat. And I'm like, "You okay?" And she goes, "Oh, I'm fasting this week."

It's like, "Okay, well, I'm not." you know. Um, but you guys, how many 15year-olds are fasting that they could have an impact on this girl that's going to move into the house and you just go, "Okay, yeah, this is my family, you know, and for this gal's life to turn around."

And I mean, within probably like a week or two, I see this girl who's man, we don't even know. and she's in the house and from her background suddenly she's I saw her on the couch cuddling with Lisa doing her homework. I'm like, are you kidding me? And now this girl is being a light on her campus and and and ministering to other girls, sharing her faith, discipling other people.

And you go, man, this is this is this is unreal. This is so cool. This is life. This is, you know, we're all pursuing this. And even even on Sundays, like we don't we have uh house churches and so we don't even go to the same churches because there, you know, one's leading worship here, one's leading worship here, one's doing this here, and it's just like, yeah, right on.

Let's go. Let's go. Let's do this thing. Um, but the unity that comes from all of that, I'm just saying, man, I'm just kind of rambling until you butt in. But, uh, it it's just >> you're doing something. I'm just going to go sit down there next to her. >> No, but it's just I I I guess what I'm saying is, you know, people go, "Oh, you're sacrificing family, family, family."

And I'm just like, "Man, try to find a closer family than ours." Um, yeah, we don't have date night every week, and we don't uh I don't date every one of my kids, you know. I can't even do that. I don't have enough nights in the week, you know. but we're on the mission together and and that doesn't mean we don't laugh.

We don't enjoy each other. Um and there's not great relationship, but it's just my job as the man of the house. I go, "No, I'm I got to keep us on this mission because I don't want to come to the end and go, "Oh, aren't we all happy?" and realize we didn't do anything on that earth.

We didn't make disciples. We didn't care about unreached people groups. We didn't care that people were starving or being raped or fatherless. It's like, what kind of picture is that to the world? >> You have anything else we can do Q&A? >> Sure. >> Yeah. We we thought we'd cut it short and um we planned that.

No, we we kind of just said, "Hey, let's just go for a little bit, throw some thoughts out there, and then um let you ask questions." So, Don's over there with the microphone right next to the guy that raised his hand. >> Not supposed to hand it to you. >> Okay.

Hey, I'm uh Ben Kaiser with the Military Mission and Navigators. Quick question. What do you what is your council to couples that uh the the husband and wife have different missions that they think God is giving them. So, for example, the Dallas Cowboys think their goal is to to win the Super Bowl and one side, the other side the goal is to have great uniforms.

What do you tell how do you counsel couples that may have different idea what the mission is? >> That's more you >> I mean part of me wants to say well there there aren't two different missions. there's one mission which is to love God with all of our hearts and to make disciples and um how that plays out.

I mean, obviously there's different giftings between a husband and a wife. Um, but if I felt like we were supposed to be in Florida ministering at a church here and Francis felt called to plant home churches in San Francisco, then I mean, I legitimately feel like the woman needs to submit to the husband's leadership.

And um, it's not necessarily that their call is the greatest, but God has chosen them as the leaders of the home. And so they are going to set the pace and the tone. And within that, the husband can graciously say, "Babe, I need you to come and do this in light of what God's put on my heart and our heart.

This is what I feel God has called our family to do." And um and I think the woman really needs to trust God in that and believe that um the safest place she can be is in the will of God, which is to submit to your husbands in everything as unto the Lord.

And there will always be a way for you to use your gifts. And um I mean there is no lack of people that need love and disciplehip. And so I just feel like there's there's no way a woman would woman woman's gifts would be wasted by the Lord even as she follows and comes under her husband's leadership.

Do you have anything to add to that? >> Yeah. No, I agree. uh you know I mean biblically we do see and I know that there's a variety of views on this issue but best we can understand scripture was that the man was the head of the home and that as the head of the home he has an opportunity to be like Christ who is the head of the church and what Christ did was that he served the church he died for the church he sacrificed for the church and so I have an opportunity as the authority in the home and the leader in the home to show the world a type of authority like they've never seen where I use my authority to actually bless my wife and to love my wife and to sacrifice for my wife.

You know, at the same time, there are times that blessing her and honoring her and sacrificing for her may look different than what maybe what the world looks, you know, it's not just giving her everything she desires. There may be times when I'm like, "Honey, I think this is a a better, more eternal decision."

And so I I I before the Lord, we got to head this way and um and we're going to go this direction. And that's there have been a very few times I've done that. Um but in those times, we've seen the blessing of the Lord. And so I say when there is that discrepancy, this is something that we don't talk about today because who's the last person you heard uh that was grateful for authority, right?

We we live in a very anti-authority culture. All authority is bad. We you know who praises authority? And so that's why we end up looking at God and go, he has no right to tell me what I can and can't do. He if he made me this way, he can't tell me to not do this or not do.

It's just this everyone's about themselves. Everyone does what's right in their own eyes. And so I have an opportunity to say authority is actually a good thing. See, if Adam and Eve had actually submitted to their authority, the authority was a good thing. And and it's it's it's a very thing that I told our our daughter that we just adopted was I go, you know, when she was getting into some trouble at school or whatever, I go, "Listen, honey, I know you've never seen good authority in your life, and so you just any authority is bad."

I said, 'But I my goal is to show you that authority can be a great great thing. I love being under the authority of God. I love having him as as master. I love the commands he gives me. And so there are rules in this house. I don't you don't just get my provision and my protection without my authority also.

Um but that's not the downside. I by the time you graduate high school, I want you to actually love authority and be so grateful that you're under it because I want to do that good of a job as your dad. And so it's this we have an opportunity to show the world a different picture because I told her, I go, "Look, I want you one day to love the authority of God and not just look at all these rules as these things you have to obey and it sucks and I wish I could just be free to do my own thing, but to go, no, actually his commands lead to life."

And I saw that by the way that my dad led led uh my mom and the way that he led us. And so yeah, in those situations uh I think that's why the Lord has um from what I see in scripture u a complimentarian uh picture of marriage.

Yeah. >> Hang on. Oh wait. >> Okay. So Francis, one of the things on my heart is the difference between knowledge and conviction. And I think my kids are getting a lot of knowledge from me, but I'm not sure their conviction is where mine is. So would you share on that a little bit? >> Conviction is not something that comes from us. >> And that's a humbling thing.

It's very hard to watch your children um rebel against the Lord. And we walked through that with our oldest who's now 20, but around 14 or 15 or maybe it was before that cuz it was before we moved. Sorry, it must have been 13. Um I mean, there were times I was sitting out her bedroom door just sobbing and I'm praying, you know, with my hand stretched out toward her bedroom thinking I'm completely helpless.

Because that's something that we have to bring into this with all of our talk of give them the right picture. In some ways, that's all we can do is show them our authentic faith. Our willingness to say we love you most, God. But the rest is in the Lord's hands.

Whether or not they choose to follow Christ is not something we can control. And that's very hard. So what we do is we say we release that to the Lord. They are not ours. God, but we will show them what it looks like. We will love you with all of our hearts.

We will sacrifice for you because how much more messed up are they going to be when they constantly see you blown and tossed by the wind and sometimes you're convicted and sometimes you're not following through on them. I mean at least if you can just give them a picture of along with your you know your sin and your growth it's like they can see that the trajectory of your life is I am here for Christ.

I will love him most. The gospel is what's most important. Um that is what we're going after. We're not going after how to find out how to convict them. And there was times I even had to come to Rachel and say you know what I am really trying to be your Holy Spirit and I'm sorry that is not my job.

I'm your mom. So, I'm going to give you wisdom and I'm going to pray for you and I'm going to love you, but whoa, sometimes I'm a little out of balance and she's like, "What? What are you talking about, mom?" And you know, I give her a couple examples like it's not my place to convict you.

That is the job of the Holy Spirit. And so, we have we can't confuse our jobs. In a lot of ways, what our biggest job is is to show them what it looks like and to pray for them. And >> yeah, I remember during that time, Lisa even asked me, she goes, "Do you feel like we failed as parents?" >> And I said, "No, I'm not going to take of course we made mistakes, especially with your first."

It's like, you know, but uh I said, "But I I I no, we didn't fail on this because look, we've lived this thing out. I I do not believe we are hypocrites. We live this thing out and she knows it and she's seen God move. But according to my theology, unless the Holy Spirit enters her and convicts her in her inner person, like I can't make that happen.

That's not up to us. And I said, you know, we could we could lock her in her room and give her more rules, but what happens when she turns 18? she's if her heart doesn't change and we're not in charge of that and I hate it. I wish I could, man.

And I I think I tried, you know, as much as I could to, you know, to give her the right messages on and on and on. Give her the example, but it's a miracle when the Holy Spirit enters into someone. And I remember even just telling my own daughter, "The thing that scares me is if you were to die tonight, I really think you'd go to hell."

You think that that was easy to say to your own daughter, your firstborn, the love of your life, and yet it's like to explain to her, I go, I get it. You love dad. You love mom. You love us. I just don't think you love God. It's not here.

You do good things because we give you those rules, but it's not coming from inside. And ah, that was miserable. And it was a miserable month or two or however long it was where I, you know, you're up at I'm up at three in the morning just crying going, "God, you're having me preach everywhere and really you're not going to save my daughter?

You're not going to put your spirit in her?" Because once God's spirit enters someone, then it's almost like you can let go. And it's like, well, she's going to have her own convictions. I I I mean, you can even let her test the boundaries. She's a slave to righteousness now. and and and remember, you know, a couple months later when she came into the room and said, "Dad, you're right."

I was like, "Look, honey, maybe I was a little strong, whatever else." And she goes, "No, you're right. The Holy Spirit wasn't in me." And I'm like, "Well, how do you know?" She goes, "Because he's in me now." And it's so different. Life is different. I talk to God like I'm talking to you right now.

And from that point on, it seriously was just a totally different trajectory in her life. No, she's not perfect, but man, you just see it in everything and it's the conviction. So, when she turned 18 and she's off on her own, it's like she's fine. She's fine. I don't need to know what she's doing.

The Holy Spirit knows everything. So, so that's where, you know, when it comes to conviction, you you can't put that in a person. That's the miracle we're all shooting for. I think too often in America and ministry in America, we think there's this process of well, if you do this first and then this first and then this first and this first, then they become a Christian right here and the Holy Spirit answers them, then it goes.

It's like, no, there's not a stepbystep thing. There's one step. At some point, the person understands the gospel and the Holy Spirit enters into them and then they're a slave to righteousness and it's a it's a a road of sanctification for the rest of their lives. But until the Holy Spirit enters into them, we're all just talking, you know.

It's just it's all going to fall on deaf ears. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Did you have someone back there? Oh, no, no, no. I didn't know why you were back there. Sorry. >> Open your >> He had his hand up here. Oh. Um, I've heard several stories of uh folks who had parents that were in the ministry in particular and bitterness was built because they were away from the home so much uh so that they could be involved in their ministry um outside of the home and I and maybe it's not ministry maybe people are just away for for work a lot um but what kind of boundaries do you set uh to separate you know to to where you are so active outside of the home, but to where you're also active within the home and with your children or with your family to kind of prevent that separation. >> I'll start this way. >> Okay. >> All right.

Um I guess we have so much ministry going on in the home. Okay. See, this is this is where we like to separate everything. We we believe there's this thing called privacy that I have yet to see in scripture. Um where it's like, well, here's my house and obviously no one else is going to live in my house other than my flesh and blood.

And I'm going I don't know. I don't know if that's what hospitality means. Um it seems like there was even a welcoming of strangers. And so ministry isn't even necessarily leaving my house. Um our house is ministry. I I mean been married 22 years. I doubt there's been even a year if you add all the days together where there wasn't someone else living in our home.

Um, I mean, it's it's been about disciplehip in the house and people drop by in the house and um, we've had all sorts of people living in our house, you know, whether alcoholic right off the street, you know, trying to sober up to a guy coming right out of prison with an ankle monitor to, you know, living there in our house.

And they've seen the miracles that have taken place in our home. And now they see all of these people and all these different ministries that are that they call brother and sister, aunt and uncle because they were all a part of this ministry. And and so there's not this separation of I have ministry time and then I have family time.

But we're trying to take the the the book literally that who is my brother, who are you know who who's my mother, who's my brothers and sisters. It's those who hear the word of God and do it. This is really our brother. I found this guy on the street, but I I think he's really our brother.

So, I'm bringing him into the house and you guys treat him like a brother or uncle or whatever you want to call him. You know, it's it's that type of mindset and and uh and then there's times, yeah, there are times when I'm gone and I remember the first few trips to Africa overseas, you know, when my kids were missing me and and my wife doesn't go, "Yeah, you know, stupid ministry pulls them away."

Um, but she goes, you know, she goes, "Isn't that awesome, you guys? How many people on the earth have a dad who's out in Africa right now helping all these other kids that don't even have any dads?" Like, I hope you guys are proud of him. I mean, it it is so special to have it. it it's it's a total different mindset rather than he's being taken away to he's been an amazing example to you and someday we'll take you with us and you'll see these hospitals that are built you'll see these wells that people are drinking out of and you'll see these lives that are impact and you'll realize that this is the way Christ wants us to live and there's no better way to live so it's it's that type of mindset and and so we do take them you know I just took one of them to China with me I usually travel with a different kid each time.

And this time we took a couple of them with us since it was Disneyland. Um but uh you know just taking them to different places so they can see and play with kids in different areas and um but also to get them to to think eternally. >> Yeah.

I mean I think you pretty much answered it. Um >> you have anything? >> Yeah. Well, I don't know. >> Just say it. No, I'm just thinking um you know, even in just the little moments of life, I'm thinking like I'll I have still a 10-month-old and a four-year-old at home.

The rest are in school. But um even with those little ones, it'll be like, "Well, you can, you know, a woman wants to meet um needs some counsel or prayer or I'll invite her over to the house." And it's like, "We need to pray together." And I'm like, "Claire, come here."

You know, she's only four. Do you want to come and pray with you know, me and Susie? Um it's like so they're again growing up just being invited into it, watching it. It's not like mom and dad go do ministry and I'm left on my own. It's even at just a young age inviting them into it.

There's times when we would um call family meetings like, "Hey, we've got to all pray. Something just happened to, you know, whatever is Shawn and we need to to pray for him. This is what's going on." and suddenly because they've known him, he was in our home and now we're going to pray together.

Um, again, it's not like there's the guarantee that there isn't going to be some sadness or loss. We all suffer loss as we pursue the gospel. It is hard not to have him home all the time. But the the will of God, it says, is to rejoice in all circumstances and to give thanks.

And so we have to make a choice how we communicate to others and how we communicate to ourselves and our own hearts. So that's why it is very important to me to say, "Let's pray for daddy. It's around 7 tonight and he's going to be speaking right now and teaching people about Jesus, so we've got to pray." and it it brings them into it in a way where it's like, "Oh, I don't have to feel bad about this or, you know, there's the reality of we miss him, but we're going to be part of it and we're going to pray for him and >> and they all get stoked when they get to go with him on their trips.

He starts when they're about four years old." So, Claire is just about to go on her first trip and she like can't stop talking about it. So, it's kind of cute. >> And there's also the truth that we tell them about what's going on around the world, too. that you know what a lot of dads today are going to be martyed you know and that's part of our faith is it's not going to be we don't do this because it's easy um this is something we're willing to risk our life for and you know I mean honestly I've had some talks with our kids of hey we don't back down from this um and if our world ever gets this way or we end up in some country where it's like this dad's not going to back down and I will give my life for this and I will die for this and many many dads have and many children have and we've been blessed in this country but let's not fall into this typical American Christian thing where oh daddy can't miss a night of family time um because many dads have given their lives and um and so I want to find some of those kids too whose dad gave their lives and I want to bless them like crazy and we'll go without stuff and give it to them because they were they live for this thing.

They believed it. So, yeah. >> Do you have advice for couples that are engaged and moving towards marriage to have a marriage that's on a mission like like you're explaining? >> Yeah. There's this book. >> I mean, it >> all the the profits go towards projects around the world.

Yeah. So, it's a great book to to purchase. >> It really is like everything we can say about marriage and parenting at this stage kind of rolled into a book and then some um and uh I'm not trying to sell anything because you can get it for free.

You just download the app and we even read it for you. Um, so it's it's it's not like a salesy thing, but yeah, that's >> Yeah, but we offer it for purchase so that those funds for those that can afford it can go out and do even more for the gospel. >> Yeah.

When we wrote it, I was like, "Okay, this is something I'm convicted before the Lord." And so, we may even invest money and lose money just to get it out there. And so, I don't want anyone to not get it because of money. So, you can just go to the iTunes store and go to you and me forever and download it and it's free.

You can read it or we read it to you and videos, everything. Um, and then yeah, if you purchase it, then the money goes overseas. But we weren't we're not making a dime off it, but it's all just to get out. So guys, when you run into a couple and instead of their focus is the family is for the mission that reversed the mission is the family.

Is there anything even I don't know how I'm going to try to explain. >> Yeah. Have you run into any success where you actually see a family turn the focus from themselves outward or is that the kind of you just shake your dust off your feet and move on because it's all God having to convict them?

Have you seen much success in that area? >> I think I think I have, you know, um I mean I just recently had someone say, "Gosh, my parents are changing their lives around because they're reading your book." book and he goes, "By the way, my dad's 92." Like, "What?"

You know, it's just, you know, from young to old, you know, it's a lot's a younger generation where they read the book and go, "Yeah, no duh." You know, like this is what I see in scripture. Like, I didn't get this idolization of marriage that we've seen in the church where that just became like the goal.

Um, so the young people, you know, get it. Um, I think the big challenge because I get asked that question all the time, you know, of just what happens to the family or, you know, it seems like you're sacrificing the family and isn't that most important? Marriage, my marriage is my first ministry and and I just challenge them to show me that biblically. um you know and I I think it's it's a lot of uh you know Christian lingo that goes around but when they look and search the scriptures I just really encourage them show me in the book you know a a verse that I exposited in the wrong way you know and because I don't ever want to be wrong in how I exposit or show me a verse or two that I maybe didn't see in there um and I challenge you to do that or maybe you look through theript scriptures yourself and kind of go, "Wow, I think I think we were off on this one."

And that's >> Yeah. I just think I recently spoke at a um young mom's group and they have older mentors and after I shared the message I was talking about marriage and uh it was really awesome because this older elers's wife I would guess she was probably around 60 just full of life and the spirit and she'd come up to me and she said man when you said that about there's a lot of happy but worthless marriages I actually gave my husband credit because it is what he said, and I said, you know, my husband always says, and she goes, that really challenged me because we've been married whatever, you know, 30, 40 years.

And and I thought, wow, I really want to make sure that we're not just having a happy marriage and we're we're useless for the kingdom when we're not still charging it, you know. So, it was very encouraging to see the humility of this older woman to come to me and say, "That was a word from the Lord for me."

And it encouraged me to think, yeah, the Lord, what did Jesus do when he preached to the crowds, he's like, he who has ears to hear, let him hear. And that's the beauty of if the spirit of God is working and moving and then you don't have to worry so much about like you must change.

You know, it's like I'm going to just I'm going to speak the truth. I'm going to show you what it looks like. And he who has ears to hear is going to hear. and that that good soil when the word of God falls on it, it it takes root and it's going to grow and that and then we don't even have to worry about it.

So we we write the book, we share the truth and we let God's spirit work and convict and move and do all the rest. So we have been encouraged to see >> yeah even before we wrote a sentence I think you know we went away and we prayed and as we're praying we're just saying God if everyone hates us after this book it's cool you know if that's our job right now we're just honored to be your prophets and to say whatever the Lord you know whatever you have in this book we don't even know exactly all that we're going to write but we know some people are not going to like it and even if everyone dislikes it still an honor to right for you.

Um, and so I have seen change and I think it uh there's a new crop of people mindset changing, but it it's also easier for us because we're in San Francisco and not in the Bible belt and uh and I know in the Bible belt it's all about family first.

And uh we'll say God first, family second, but what does that even mean? Um that doesn't have a real practical value to that statement. And it really is marriage is my first ministry and anything that keeps us from focusing on our marriage is, you know, is off. So I know it's it's difficult for some of you because of where you live and the church culture that may not necessarily be a biblical culture, but we've created this this family first mentality. >> Don't underestimate what God can do through your example.

So, if the spirit is stirring this in you and you're like, "We're off and we've got to do something different." Just be encouraged that God is going to use your example in the lives of others that he's already stirring in. So, do it. Drop everything. Change things and believe that God's going to use your example in other people's lives. >> Yeah.

Uh I just have a follow-up question just to this very topic. So you said point me to a scripture where you know this is in there and a fr we've had some similar frustrations with people relating to in our community in the same way. Um and they would always point to the things in the Old Testament um uh pass these things on to your children impress them on your children these kinds of things.

Would you just explain that by saying well that was God's specific instructions for Israel or um there is all there is a good amount in the scriptures about you know Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh not I guess not to focus exclusively on your children, but really prioritizing them, your responsibilities to them.

And uh that's what we've seen people use, I guess, as a if you call it an excuse or whatever to >> to have that family first focus. >> Yeah. Yeah. But those passages are about teaching your kids the the law and it's and it's about taking them with you, you know, along the way.

We're not saying don't teach your kids anything or ignore them. We're just saying take them on the mission with you and show them that the mission is first and uh and this is all about I mean the idea of of even this as he was trying to impress on the children's heart it was it was through the course of life you're teaching them not just in your room but he's he's just saying as you go um where is it Deuteronomy 6 uh 7 you shall teach them diligently to your children.

You shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise, you shall bind them as a sign on your hand. They shall be frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorpost of your house, and in your gates, and when the Lord brings you into the land, he swore to your fathers.

So, it's just it's just this constant, yeah, you know, I I think I don't think I've contradicted that passage. Um, in fact, I'm taking my kids to Africa with me and saying, "Look, it's it's it's it's just it's not just this that we teach our kids by like, hey, you know, go to Awana and and recite a verse and which is fine, which is great.

I'm just saying go beyond that and go, well, okay, you you know, you you memorize that verse about don't just say be well, you know, be warm and fed. Okay, we're going to go walk on the streets together now. We're going to go knock on the doors of these people now.

And as we go along the way, I'm not only teaching you God's word and have you memorize God's word. I want to show you God's word in action. Watch when dad gets rejected. I'm about to get turned down. Okay? You know, here's here's the gospel. Look, I got treasure in heaven now cuz I just got rejected.

Cool thing. You know, it's it's it's it's that type of teaching. Um and you know, rather than hey, let's just let's just huddle together in our house, but it's out as we do ministry. Yes. Over here. Let's have a Oh, >> oh, I'm sorry. We'll take that. And over here, >> one Yeah.

One quick question. Uh, one thing I feel convicted about with my life that I'm not fully understanding is this concept of Sabbath. And I know it'll get better when I get married and have kids and have a ton of responsibilities, then I'll understand Sabbath. But uh uh I was just going to so being that we're on mission as a married couple or whenever I do get married uh how does Sabbath play into that? >> That's good.

That might be my only sin. Um no, no, no, no. I I I realized, okay, when I was early on in ministry, I didn't take a Sabbath. Um I was just like non-stop and and I, you know, I figured, well, I'm a pastor, so I can't take Sunday off.

Um and then Saturday, I'm going to be preparing for my Sunday sermon and so I can't really do that. And then I don't know, I had all sorts of excuses. And then it's like, well then do I not, you know, fly to Orlando? you know, if I Sabbath, I wouldn't be here.

You know, it's just all sorts of like reasons why I couldn't do it. And uh have gotten more convicted about that and understand there is a pattern, there is a faith in that and I and I have now on my phone, you know, Sabbath on Saturday or Friday.

So, the way I look at it was, you know, sometimes if I'm speaking here on a Friday, um I think that's what God would want me to do, but I have Sabbath there on that day. So, I just make sure I can switch that to Saturday and I won't do something there.

And uh you know, so I'm I'm working on that. That's that that hasn't been a strength of mine in the past. And I'm trying to teach that to my children. >> Yeah. >> Oops. My question goes along kind of with the Sabbath, but also with extended family. Um, how do you interface all that and like taking care of elderly parents and you know you raise your kids and your home's a mission field but um like in my case my family we're not believers >> and so they thought we maybe were a little crazy um which is fine for the gospel but how do you still continue to love them so that they would desire him as well? >> Yeah, that's good.

I think it's very important to honor your parents. Um, we had moved Lisa's parents into our house at one point, put an addition on there for them because they were getting older and everything else, but they didn't really like living with us, so they moved out. But I tried, >> right? >> They didn't like living with you.

I'm just kidding. >> Exactly. you know, I mean, you know, but but I I tried and I I mean, I just joke with my kids, you know, one day dad's going to be in diapers and you got to um but I I want to give that example to my kids, you know, and then my mom lives not too far from us and my brother's been doing a lot of that, taking care of her and and uh having her around and and us trying to have her around and explain the importance of that. think we could do more.

Um, but and we both come from decentsized families and so there's kind of a spreading of that, but we want to show them that it's important. And I think by them seeing and knowing that look, we're always there for grandma, grandpa, you know, if they need anything, we're here.

Um, and I go I >> Yeah, I mean legitimately it's hard when people have a lot of expectations of you and it's a very interesting road of trying to figure out at what point um you're responding to these expectations rather than um the will of the Lord and what he has really asked you to do.

And so there is no easy answer to that other than to be on your knees and believe that God's spirit will lead. And there's times when you might suddenly realize, whoa, I'm I'm really answering expectations and trying to just, you know, be this robot for this person who's requiring too much of me.

And it's okay. The Lord may release you and say it's okay to say no. It's okay to say I love you and I wish I could do this for you but God has asked me to do this and I must love him first. So even like we show our children God is first.

We have to do that with our parents with our boss you know with whoever. >> Yeah. Um, so it's a Holy Spirit dance of keeping step with the spirit because he will tell you when you're off. And you know, he may also be like, "Wow, you're not really honoring your mother and father the way I've asked you to.

Step it up a little." You know, it could go either way. And so, we have to be always asking the Lord and always holding it out. I'm at a loss here, Lord. I need your wisdom. I want to do what you've asked me to do. and really believe that he will answer that as you surrender and say, "I'm willing to do whatever, Lord."

You know, but I won't uh I won't just go blindly or just keep following these people. At some point, I've got to say, "No, God is my father and this is what he's asking me to do." >> That's really good. >> Thank you, J. >> A good answer.

Yeah, because you can't just say whatever your mom tells you to do, you got to do it. It's like no, there's there's a cut off point. And it's a great example to our kids, you know, to say, "Look, honey, if I ever if I'm if I get old, I start losing it, and I just want you to sit with me every day, all day long.

Don't listen to me." You know, there's a mission out there, and you can't even let me keep you from that mission and uh take care of me, clean my diapers, but go on the mission. Okay, >> we have time for one more. >> Last question. Okay. >> Uh you know, there's talk of a Christian bubble. you know, kind of keeping your children separated from, you know, the things that are going on in the world.

What has been your strategy in kind of, you know, just preparing your children, you know, for the wickedness and, you know, the things that are going on out there? Uh, and and not sheltering them too much from it. >> It's a great answer. Two words, public school. You know, I mean, our kids are in public school and uh they come home with insane stories and I cannot be any more proud of our children in this area.

Um they are freaks on their campuses like they don't fit in. They, you know, don't have all the friends they could have if they had compromised. And they've had to stand firm. They've raised their hand and challenged teachers. And so by the time they're 18, I'm like, they're good.

They can make it through public school in San Francisco and keep their faith and stand for their faith and share their faith on that campus. >> They're good. So I don't for us that's how >> I'm a huge scaredy-cat. So I get the fear entirely and it is hard sometimes to see what they come home with and what they've talked about with friends and we've had to have conversations.

I mean I'm talking with my 10-year-old son about pornography already because I want him to know and be prepared. Buddy, your friend has an iPhone 6. Okay. First of all, I want to go talk to their mom and dad, but Um, guess what? Eventually they're going to start wanting to show you some stuff on their phone and we're going to have to talk about this now and decide what you're going to do.

I mean, we cannot shelter them from the world as much as we want to. And so, there's a lot of prayer and a lot of heartache, but at the same time, having a 20-year-old who's in college, I truly cannot imagine her going out into that world having been sheltered her whole life.

And maybe you have had a different experience, but I'm just telling you from our experience. Um, I really feel like I can see now the wisdom in in letting them experience some of these things as they're under our roof. And we talk them through and we pray them through and we show them how to stand firm and stand for the Lord in the midst of a twisted and crooked generation.

Um, so man, it it's not easy. It's not an easy choice, but I have seen the benefit of it now as we've got a So, the 20-year-old's in her third year of college, and then we have a senior and a junior in high school, and it's been very, very good. >> Yeah.

And then we have 11-year-old, 10-year-old, four-year-old, one-year-old, and we can direct them to the examples of their older sisters and go, "Oh, yeah." You know, look at their example. Look at how you see how she's, you know, doing this, this, this, and this. And you know how this happens here, here, here.

You know, they've walked this road ahead of you and they navigated it. Uh, not navigated, um, they got through it really well. All right, that's it. >> Would you thank Lisa and Francis?