Dr. David Jeremiah's interview with James Brown

((music playing)) Will heaven be boring at all? >> I love this question because the answer is simple. God is not boring. Jesus is not boring. And here's the one most people have a hard time with. When you get there, you won't be boring even because you're going to get changed on >> even if you were boring here.

Huh. >> And that it's going to take some work for some people. You and I both know. But when you get to heaven, you will be full of joy and incitement. And the Bible says in the presence of God are pleasures forever more. God created everything that's exciting in this world.

((music playing)) Hey, I'm in New York City in Time Square with a wonderful friend. I have to tell you something about my friend. He's a football guy who loves Jesus. I'm a pastor who loves football. So we have a great time when we get together. I hope you'll welcome my good friend James Brown. >> Doctor, it is excellent to be here with you.

I've done a number of Turning Point Ministries events, but Time Square, how did this come about? >> Well, you know, one of the things I realize when you do what I do and you preach, if you're not careful, you preach to the choir. >> I have a wonderful church full of people who love Jesus and want to go to heaven when they die and are ready to go.

But our burden is to get the message out as wide as possible. And by using a place like this, we expand our reach. We say to people, we're more than just church people. We care about what's going on. So, we're here in the center of New York, which in many respects is in the center of the world, and we're going to bring to this community, as we've been doing all week, the message about heaven and how you go there. >> It is indeed the world's crossroads. some 50 million people a year come through here.

So, couldn't be better situated. But doc, I I must ask you, you call it, how do you get to heaven from Time Square? Why heaven? Why time square? >> Well, of course, Time Square is like any other place. There's only one way to get to heaven, and that is through the personal sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Jesus himself said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the father except through me." John 14. So if you want to go to heaven, you have to go through Jesus Christ. Whether it's from New York or San Diego or any place else, there's only one way. >> You know what?

I've had the opportunity to preview your upcoming fascinating book, The Promise of Heaven. That title, The Promise, is heaven promised to us, Dr. Jeremiah? >> Well, it's promised to those who will come to heaven God's way. If we come to Jesus and accept him as our savior, if we ask for forgiveness of our sins and acknowledge that we can't make it to heaven and through our own good works, the Bible says when we trust him, I like to say it, he punches our ticket to heaven.

It seems to be for many who have not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord, that's pretty exclusive. It is what it is. But how do you answer the question, doc? Why so exclusive one way? >> Here's an interesting thought. uh James when God Almighty decided to create physical life he said it will be created through an egg and a sperm when he decided to create spiritual life he said I will do it through the word of God and the Holy Spirit there's only one way to be born physically just like there's only one way to be born spiritually truly you have handled a number of questions from loved ones asking about their loved ones who have passed on and one of the most often asked questions.

Can they see what's happening here? >> You know, that's really a football question, James. You know why? >> Because some guy who plays in the NFL loses his father during the weekend and he goes out and plays a tremendous game and what does he say? My dad was watching in heaven.

And you know, we'd like to believe that, but let me tell you where that comes from. In the book of Hebrews, there's a passage that says, "We are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses." And most people have taken that to believe that up in heaven there are a bunch of witnesses who are watching and they're the crowd that we're praying for.

But that's not what it means. Uh there are two kinds of witnesses. I tell everybody that there's a saying witness and a seeing witness. A saying witness is somebody who tells you something that you need to hear. In the 11th chapter of Hebrews, we have the hall of fame of all the great people in the Old Testament.

And when the writer of Hebrews says we're surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, that's who he's talking about. He's talking about all those guys in the book of Hebrews in chapter 11 who are saying you can do it. And Hebrews 12 is let's go on. So they're saying take the witness from the 11th chapter and use that.

But it doesn't say the people up in heaven are watching so you can go on. You know, if you stop and think about it, if the people in heaven could see what was going on on earth, it would take something away from heaven because a lot that goes on earth isn't very heavenward. >> Will heaven be boring at all? >> I love this question because the answer is simple.

God is not boring. Jesus is not boring. And here's the one most people have a hard time with. When you get there, you won't be boring either because you're going to get changed on the way. >> Even if you were boring here, huh? >> And that it's going to take some work for some people.

You and I both know. But when you get to heaven, you will be full of joy and excitement. And the Bible says in the presence of God are pleasures forever more. God created everything that's exciting in this world. Because you're so gifted at clarifying things, delineating what the Bible means.

I think about this question here, rewards in heaven. You and I love sports a lot. We think about championship events that we've covered. You've done a zillion and one chapel services, football, basketball, and the like. The rewards in heaven in the New Testament, they're called crowns. Can you delineate? >> Well, there's five of them.

I won't go through all five of them, but they're given in the scripture and they're there for separate things that we do like there's a crown for those who look forward to the coming of Christ. >> There's a shepherd's crown for people who do what I do, a pastor's, group leaders, small group leaders.

And these crowns are available to us. And the Bible says at the judgment seat of Christ, which will happen right inside the gates of heaven, we'll be judged not for our sins because we will never be judged for our sins again. But this will be like the judgment seat at Olympics >> where we'll be judged to see whether we trained right, whether we lived right, did we take advantage of our opportunities?

And as we do those things, we will be given rewards. And the Bible says, don't get all cocky about that because when you get these crowns, you're going to cast them at the feet of Jesus in an act of worship. So, I don't want to be missing out on that.

I want to have something to cast at Jesus' feet when I get to heaven. >> One of the topics I've written down, worship in heaven. I was surprised to learn, never thought about this. In heaven, no prayer, no preaching. You'll be out of a job if that's the case. >> Actually, I don't have a job in heaven. >> What do you mean no prayer? >> Well, the Bible says when we get to heaven, we're going to know as we are known. >> We will have personal fellowship with the Lord.

So, why would we need prayer? Prayer will be different than it is now. If you want to call a personal relationship with Jesus, prayer. But it'll be much more than that. Heaven in the celestial city. I want to delve into that because we're in the midst of all of this technology here in Time Square, but it will pale in comparison to heaven.

How does the Bible describe it? >> You know, James, if you think it's that way now, let me tell you that when the Bible was written, the largest city in the world was Rome, and it had 450,000 people. >> Today, there are over a hundred cities in China with over a million people. >> And of course, this city is one of the largest cities in the world. in heaven.

All of those who have come to know God from time immemorial will be present in this one city. It's a four square city which means it's this way, this way, and this way the same. It's a layered city and it will be if you read the description of it in Revelation, it's incredibly beautiful.

An unbelievable place. We hear words that certainly conjure beautiful thoughts. words like treasures in heaven which may differ from our definition of treasures. Can you elaborate on that? >> Well, one our first treasure is the redeemer. When we get to heaven, Jesus will be our treasure. >> Redeemer.

Wow. >> Jesus will make everything even the other beauties of heaven seem irrelevant because his presence will be everything. We'll have Jesus as our redeemer. Our relationships will be in heaven. When we get to heaven, my mom and dad will be there. Donna's mom and dad will be there.

My uh my sister is in heaven. Her brother's in heaven. My dad once told me, he said, "The older I get, I got more people in heaven than I have on earth." >> And so, not only will I see my redeemer, he's a treasure, but my relationships are treasures.

My residence is in heaven. Did you know that the Bible says we are citizens of heaven? James, I have this little thing that I do when I travel internationally to go preach or something. I never reset my watch. I keep my watch at San Diego time everywhere I go and then I make the calculation in my mind when I read it. >> Why do you do that? >> I like to know what time it is where I live.

And I think that's kind of what the Bible means. Set your watch on heaven time so you know what's going on in heaven. And be aware of the fact that you're not living there yet. But the Bible says, "Set your affection on things above, not on things below."

So when we go to heaven, we'll be able to fully express that. But God wants us to experience it now. Keep heaven on our mind and make sure we live with heaven as our purpose. >> I'm smiling because you make it so plain and simple. That is the point of reference.

Doc, I can't leave that topic without closing with this. You mentioned about the first treasure is Jesus. The Bible makes it clear. It is all about Jesus. >> Exactly. is one of the things that's sad about heaven, James, is a lot of people think they're going there who aren't because heaven isn't about being good.

Heaven isn't about being a good father or even going to church, not cussing, um treating other people. You can do all those things and when you get to heaven, the only thing that's going to matter is whether or not you've accepted Christ. Your reservation for heaven is made in this life and it has to be made before you go into eternity.

And you say, "Well, I'm going to wait later on. I'm going to sew my wild oats now and get saved later." Which a pretty stupid thing to do because you don't know what your life is going to be, how long you're going to live. And I have so many stories about that.

You need to make reservation for heaven when the spirit of God is witnessing to your heart. Do you want to go to heaven? That's my question to everybody who's watching. Do you want to go to heaven? If you want to go to heaven, you have to make a decision to trust Jesus Christ now.

You can't put it off. You don't get a second chance. It's now or you forever lose heaven. Don't make that serious mistake. >> You preached in the state of Indiana. You remind me of John Wooden of basketball fame, strong man of God. My high school coach modeled him and he says, "Don't roll the dice on your life.

The decision, this is not a dress rehearsal. This is the real deal." >> Exactly. Right. Yes, sir. If nothing else comes out of our discussion today, it's my prayer, James, that somebody who might know you or might know me will be interested enough to listen and know that God created us with heaven in our hearts.

And we're we're not ever going to be at home and feel a sense of wholeness until we get to heaven. And you know what happens? Uh I was just talking to somebody about this the other day. I read a statement by Tom Brady after he had won his last Super Bowl.

He made a comment such as, "Is this all there is?" You know, here's here's interesting. We try everything we can figure out to try to fill that heaven hole in our heart and nothing will fill it. You can't find joy and happiness with anything else. Not with success, not with money, not with sex, not with fame.

Jesus Christ is the only one who fits in that place. And heaven is what it's called. And that's why if you don't get heaven, you miss everything. You miss the meaning in life and you miss the future. >> We will let that point settle in because Dr. Jay, that does say it all.

Dr. Jeremiah, under the title of absent from heaven. At the time that we're doing this interview, the world is continuing in a world of chaos and things that take place that could be very concerning, a lot of consternation for us. But absent from heaven will be chaos and division and the like.

Please talk about that. >> Well, the Bible says when we get to heaven, we're going to know true peace because we'll be in the presence of the Prince of Peace >> in heaven. The Bible says there's no death, there's no sadness, there's no sickness, there's no sin. And the Bible says the light of heaven will be the very light of Jesus Christ himself.

He will light heaven up with his brilliance. We will be reflecting his light throughout eternity. >> Dr. Jay, we only have a few last questions, but can I park right there for a second and ask you this? Everything that you've talked about, you're stating it definitively. And I love to say that assurance that you have is predicated upon the character and integrity of our Lord who cannot lie.

He's incapable. Would you elaborate on that for a second? If the Bible says that Jesus said, "I'm the only way to heaven and he's not," then he's not a truth teller. If he's not a truth teller, he can't be Lord. He's either Lord or lunatic. The Bible sort of pros it that way.

I know he's the Lord. He's a truth teller about everything about heaven and even about this earth. >> And uh I know what to believe because I know what he says. I've studied his word. I have the the printed word of the incarnate Christ and I know what he says and I believe it.

Many people have heard this expression and I want you to comment on it. It's under the title of motivated by heaven. Some people will actually use it in an accusatory fashion. You seem to be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good. Are we running a danger of being distracted from our current work because we're heavenly minded?

Does that make sense? >> You know something, James, that's one of the things I get asked more than anything else by pastors. Yeah. They say, "Why do you always preach on these things about the future? Shouldn't you be talking more about the things that are going on down here?

We're not in the future. We're here. You're not relevant." But here's what I know. Almost every passage in the Bible that speaks about heaven has within its context a practical application about how to live. And I'll give you an illustration. I've been quoting this verse from John 14.

Here's what the verse says. Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me. What is that saying? This truth about heaven has a lot to do with the way you function. If you have a troubled heart, if you put heaven in its right place, get your reservation in order, you won't have a troubled heart.

The Bible says, don't let your heart be troubled. Put Jesus in first place. Get heaven squared away, and your troubled heart will go away. And over and over in the scripture is that heavenly promise with that practical earthly application. It is uncanny how often that's true. >> Why is developing a heavenly mindset so crucial for our walk today in God? >> Well, for instance, uh here we are in Time Square.

If all we got is this, if this is all we got, Jinx, >> it's not much to hope for. I mean, are there good things here? Yeah. Why are we here? We love coming here. It is an incredible place, but this is a big evil city, and that's what we have here.

But I'm looking for a city whose builder and maker is God. My city is coming in the future. And even though I deal with some of the issues of the cities here, I don't worry too much about it because I' I know what's coming. I know where I'm going.

I know where this all ends. And because I know that I can live every day with peace and not be frustrated by the things I see around me. Anybody who knows anything about you under the topic of heart to heart. You have a passion for people globally. Whatever the walk of life is, we're here in Time Square.

You look at the sea of people who are around us. On my way here, I was looking intently at a number of people that I wish I could have gotten out of the car. >> Sure. >> To talk with because they looked hopeless. What's your word of encouragement for all of us? >> You know what?

It's an interesting thing that Jesus comes into a person's life and no matter what that person's life is before he comes into that life, he changes us. Jesus Christ is the hopegiver. He's the one who comes and when your sin goes away, your hopelessness goes away. When you become forgiven and no longer are under the sense of guilt, you now have a sense of peace and you can deal each day.

Are things different in the world you live? No. But you have a different approach to them because you have the creator of the universe living within your heart by invitation that you personally have asked him to come. And I have to say he's sitting on the throne of my life calling the shots of my life helping me to do the right thing so that I stay out of the difficult places. >> Dr.

Jay, this is kind of an add-on to that same question. Being a light for the world that's personal for all of us. What does that mean to you? >> Interesting thing is there is no such thing as darkness. Darkness is just what we call the absence of light.

So the Bible says when Christ was on this earth he said I am the light of the world. A little bit later on he said as long as I'm in the world I'm the light of the world. Just before he went back to heaven he said you are the light of the world.

We as children of God are the reflectors of the great light who is Jesus Christ. And you are the only light in that world for many people. If you don't shine they don't see the light. They don't know that there's something different about you if you don't live your life.

I know we've had this discussion. You don't wear it on your sleeve. You don't walk in and preach to everybody. But there's a quality of your life that is best responded to by the word light. And when you shine, you become an instrument that God uses in a marvelous way as he's been doing. >> Dr.

Jay, you kind of remind me of the eagle in a storm. You're above the clouds of the storm. You never seem to get caught up in the muck and the mire. Why do you stay above the fray and the manner in which you preach and teach us? >> Well, you know what?

If we're always cursing the darkness, nobody can ever see the light. You know, I I could preach stinging messages on the wickedness of the world. >> But God has not called me to curse the darkness. He's called me to to light a candle and and be a light in the dark world.

And that's what I want to be. And I'll tell you the reason why I'm that way is there's so few of us. I don't I don't have an Elijah complex by any means, but I look around today and when I see what goes on in a lot of churches, it sure isn't lifting up Jesus and lighting the light for people to go forward.

And that's what we've been called to do. And that's the really the only thing, James, that can make a difference. Why would I give my life to something that's just going to reinforce what everybody already knows? I want to tell them about Jesus who can make it better, who can make it different, who can transform their lives.

And that's what I've been doing all these years. And God has strengthened you down this stretch to go as strong as I've ever seen you going, Dr. J. >> Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. >> I've been blessed to cover a number of championship matches of all sorts.

Nothing compares to talking about matters of life with you, >> James. Thank you so much. I know how busy you are and for you to take time out of your schedule and come and let me bounce heaven off of you for a few moments and then share that with the the whole audience that we have means more than I can tell you.

Thank you so much for coming. >> Thank you so much for having me here, sir. ((music playing))