The Prayer That Changed My Life | An Interview with Francis Chan

Well, Francis Tran, it's an honor to be able to speak to you here on Charisma Media. Thank you for giving us the time to to be able to share about this important message about the love of God and truly what it means to receive that love of God.

We're going to talk about this this new book that you have, this new powerful message that God has really revealed to you more and more over the years and how this has come about. But I want to kind of bring in my a little bit of my personal connection with you or uh I started listening to your podcast years ago and one of them from about 16 years ago is a message that you titled the most important lesson I could ever teach.

It really marked me and I've used that to to play in front of other groups that God has on the mission field to to drive us towards the the love of the word of God and how to read the word of God until the the word reads me.

Um, but your new book, Beloved, has added a layer that has been challenging me again and learning more to live securely from the father's and be the father's beloved. um with these two threads uh like trembling at the word of God but also resting in love woven together like how has God woven this together for you lately? >> Well, I still believe what I said in 2009 like the most important thing I could teach someone is to love the word and just dive in and joy.

And it's really out of that study of the word comes this understanding of his love for me which is what this book of. So it's not really a a contrast but I I think some of it too is I think I used to look at trembling at the word of God meaning like God commanded this therefore I better do it.

I better obey. I still believe that. >> But what I didn't tremble at back then was his promises. Like I don't know when we think tremble and revere, it's usually like, "Oh, he commanded this." But if you look at scripture, so much of what we should be trembling at is when he promises something.

Also, when he says, "I'll be with you always." when he says that I love you and wants you to abide in my love like he wants us to believe that to believe that he's that loving towards us and for some reason there was a disconnect in my mind and uh but it's the word of God that opened my eyes to all of this. >> Amen.

Amen. I I truly believe that there is so much of a disconnect in in my life. Um and and so many people kind have grown up in the church because we know about the fear of the Lord. We know that we're trying to always have that fear of the Lord, but we do forget about that God loves us.

We're supposed to love him, but we forget that he loves us. >> What shifted in your life about from knowing about God's love to actually experiencing it? Yeah, I I mean I would I would challenge your thought because I I think I think maybe it was your experience and it may be my experience to maybe understand the fear of the Lord but wrestle with the love of God.

I would say there are others that are in the other end of the spectrum that they feel very secure and yet there's no reverence, no fear. And I'm like, "Wow, who are you secure in?" So I think you know you and I may have some similar church upbrings or whatever the cause is.

Um and I guess uh for me it was reading the word of God being convicted by the word of God. Um, and really it's it's that first John 4 passage of that perfect love casting out all fear and just grappling with the fact that there was still fear and insecurity inside of me, but the embarrassment of bringing that up. um being known as this, you know, spiritual leader, a pastor.

Uh I I don't think it was like a desire to be deceptive, but I I didn't want to hurt anyone's faith. Um by going, hey, I'm I have my doubts. And then people would go, wow, if he has his doubts, then you know, what's this all about? And yet I had to be honest and go, you know, there is still some insecurity.

I think maybe I didn't want to believe that it was there. I didn't want it there. And yet when I confessed it, believing in the power of prayer and needing my closest friends and family to actually pray for me and believing that would do something. I was just like, I I don't want to live with any fear.

I mean, Jesus died so that I could just be this free and just like fearless like I'm loved by God, this ecstatic um person that that just has that joy inexpressable >> that and full of glory that Peter talks about. I don't want to fake anything. Um, and so I need the prayers of my church and the people and and so, uh, I really believe that their prayers, my prayers, um, and ultimately the mercy and grace of a loving God >> um, opened my eyes and continues to open my eyes.

So I don't know if it's even like a we like to believe in just absolute at this moment everything changed. Um, and I do think that's true in some ways, but so much is this sancti sanctification process where I I feel like God's opening his my eyes weekly, maybe even daily, >> to where it's like, >> you really love me.

Yeah. I I want to I know you tell this story in in in your book, The Beloved, that on your 50th birthday is when you called your church family, your friends together to pray for you. Could you take us back to that moment and really how you communicated that that need for them to pray for you?

I mean, it's it it started with um you know, with my wife and telling her, "Hey, I don't really want to party or any gifts or any of that." I'm not that into those things anyways. But I I did say I I would love for the church body to come together and just pray for me, for the family to lay hands and pray for me.

Um, and just as people gathered, I just was honest like I I don't want to have any doubts of his love for me. I think maybe at my 30th birthday I would have been like, I don't know, pray that I would be surrendered and do everything God's called me to do.

Um, and so I think I pursued that and and God answered those prayers and um, and he led me into a life of surrender as as best as a fallen guy could lead. And um but then it's interesting how just as life goes on um you you realize gosh what really did I accomplish with my life and what are the most important things and what are the things that I want to get right before I truly see him.

Maybe at 30 I would think I want to get this stuff done. I want to do these things for God. Um 50. It's wow. Let me get real with anything that is off in my life. I Oh, I just want to be at peace coming into his presence and realizing what was off was some of my my actual faith and his love for me.

I got so caught up in doing the right things >> that uh I don't know maybe my level of trust in his love for me uh kind of took a backseat to that. >> Wow. Why do you think that we struggle with accepting the love of God so much?

Why is this such an issue? I know I how you describe about the apostle John, the disciple John as the beloved disciple >> and you changed the way that I have been looking at him since reading this in your book because >> uh I used to think about him as just man he's bragging about himself but you bring a different angle to this.

I'd like you to unpack that and why we are still you know 2,000 years later still not accepting the love of God like that. >> Yeah. Well, first and foremost, I would say it's demonic. Clearly demonic. Um, the whole system, the whole world system of why we value people.

Um, what we look up to and it's usually accomplishment. Nowadays, it's fame. How many followers do you have? Um, used to be more about money, you know, how much did you how much did you make? Um, but it's it's it's never been about as long as I've been alive, we don't admire someone because, oh, they're so secure in God's love for them.

And and that's why I never really looked up to John. I look at Paul, I was like, "Wow, look at that. He was stoned. He was beaten. He was shipwrecked. He was, you know, but he didn't give up." and and you know 13 books of the New Testament, you know, he he got the gospel, he he died at the end of his life, he poured his and those are great things and obviously things that we should emulate.

But in doing that, for some reason, John just didn't interest me. Um, and someone once taught those those passages that uh are most difficult to you, those are the ones you should really dig into >> and that's where you'll find the the greatest gold. And so I guess as I started looking at John and thinking about, wow, he's just known for being loved.

He's known as the beloved. He calls himself the disciple whom Jesus loved. The more I studied that, the more I thought, "Oh, wow. That's amazing." And he really is the one that wrote some fascinating verses like just as the father has loved me, so have I loved you, now remain in my love.

And I remember looking at that but not really thinking about John the person and and then seeing how even verses that we would sing and memorize as kids beloved let us love one another. I mean he's calling us beloved. I didn't notice that until uh you know a little while ago.

It never really jumped out to me like he's not just saying I'm the beloved one. He's reminding us all that we're beloved and we have to have that reminder before let us love one another. He doesn't say servants let us love one another but beloved let us love one another. the more I start just looking at that word and and thinking, "Oh, I never thought about the fact that that's what God says about Jesus."

I mean, at the baptism, it's like, "This is my son whom I love." At the transfiguration, this is my son whom I love. like that identity and I'm going oh John unerstood that like that's the identity that Jesus himself took that's what the father emphasized and I I you know that's why even on the book there's a you know an artist rendition of you I was just looking for that is there artistry and the only one I could find of John laying his head on on Jesus's his chest and because I have to keep reminding myself I want to be John.

I want to be John. I want to be John because I naturally gravitate to I want to accomplish this. I want to get this done. I I don't I don't know what causes that. Maybe it's because the whole world does that. Maybe it's my upbringing. Um maybe it's my pride.

I don't know what it is. Um, but I can just get stuck there. And when I get stuck there, >> it becomes about me and what I do and what I accomplish versus him and how much he loves me and how much grace he's poured on me. >> Yeah.

So much of the attacks that we deal with against this is based on our identity. Where is our identity found? And you mentioned that even Jesus, you know, during the the with the transfiguration, with the baptism, the father said, "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased." >> Like Jesus needed that affirmation.

We need that. We need to receive that affirmation. I think so many times we just reject it and say, "Oh, no. I'm just a worm. I'm I'm a sinner saved by grace." >> And we forget that we are actually loved. Um, how do we what advice do you have for us to actually recognize those attacks on our identity with that insecurity in in real time? >> Yeah.

I I mean, even the fact that you would use that phrase tells me we kind of grew up in a similar tradition, which absolutely I agree. I I'm disgusting in and of myself. I mean, my life was headed in a bad direction, even after supposedly believing in him, the hypocrisy, just the junk and everything else.

It's like, oh, my sin. It's that, you know, like Paul says in Romans, this wretched man that I am, who's going to save me from this? So, we're not denying that. >> Mm-m. It's just that when that's all you're told, um, which some traditions that is all we emphasize.

I think we're trying to guard against pride, um, complacency, but we're neglecting some amazing truths in scripture. And we need to be people who, you know, that's where in uh I think it's first Thessalonians 3 maybe. Um don't quote me on that. Well, this is recorded so I guess I'm quoted.

But you know, he talks about um you know how uh we have to uh confront or rebuke the unruly and encourage the faint-hearted. Um, that's the job of a leader. >> You encourage the faint-hearted and you uh rebuke the unruly. And so, as a shepherd, as a pastor, as a lover of someone, you you need to know, okay, when is it time to rebuke and when is it time to encourage?

And you know, like I said at the beginning, there's some of us that grew up with with a a fear of God, but no real understanding of his love and enjoyment of us. I mean, even that phrase of enjoyment of us, I was like, wait, what? He enjoys me?

This is something that I've wrestled with because of that religious upbringing. Um, but then there's others who really don't understand it. The friendship of the Lord is for those who fear him. >> And so I I just think we have to be wiser, more discerning. Um, those of us who've only heard one side, now that we see it in the word of God, we we don't swing the pendulum the other way, you know, as some have done and say, "Okay, I'm done with the fear of God." because that's all they talked about.

Now, I'm just going to talk about his grace and his mercy. Um, but then you end up with a church that questions whether or not God can be a judge >> and whether or not a loving God can pour out his wrath. >> Um, and that's not the right answer either. >> Yeah.

And the way that you one of the ways that you can get to know the Lord is through I was talking with your team earlier and they said about the fires of meditation and focusing on the scripture and I love that all throughout beloved you build in time to not just here's the verse but you are like read this meditate on this Francis what is some fresh moments that God has moved you from fear back to to delight in those fires of that meditation.

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 >> You know, some of it is is faith. Um just believing in the things that are invisible. Uh I see you can um you can test someone uh on how well they know a certain point of theology. um how much they've memorized. It's tangible. It's physical. Uh those are the things we tend to focus on. >> But there's, you know, so I could show up somewhere and I can give a sermon and people hear it with their ears.

They process it with their mind. They may laugh. They may cry. they made this this this you know but they they can almost gauge it or measure it. uh they can even say oh he said this and I think he misqued this verse because look he he said it was in 1 Thessalonians chapter 3 but it's actually in five or this that you know we we look at these measurable things but the Bible talks about these uh this impartation it talks about Paul then Paul's praying for this enlightening of the eyes of your heart >> um there are these miraculous less invisible things that the scripture tells us to focus on to dwell on the invisible because everything that's physical and visible is passing away but it's the invisible that's eternal and that's going to last.

And so I guess I'm just believing for myself that there are times when I just say, "Lord, I need the eyes of my heart enlightened. I need to know like know what is that? It's it's not about just education and information. I need to know these things in the depths of my soul.

And I believe that you're on this throne of grace and you hear me and you love me and not this thing. I want to know your love more. And I believe something happens during that time. When I go to speak, my focus now is not on did they like it?

Did they learn something? Was there information past the things that are so tangible? But was there anything invisible that was imparted that was of the Holy Spirit that will take root at the core of their being? So, it's not even people walking forward and coming to an altar.

Um, there are things I probably won't see. Just like I think about my youth pastor as a teenager preaching sermons I don't even remember but something took root. >> Um, because I see the results of it 40 years later. Um, I think something was happening in that spiritual warfare.

And so that that's where it's hard to define some of these things that have happened in my life. Um because those of us who believe in the invisible um sometimes you don't even know when it happened. Um it just happened because you see the results of it. >> All right.

So, I want to dive a little bit deeper into that believing in the invisible that you were just talking about because >> I mean I I think I have a bit of a more analytical mind and uh I love those TV shows where they break down this is how the magician did this optical illusion and it's like how do they do this?

It's like I'm always trying to figure something out. But when if we're supposed to have faith and believe in the invisible and just know, I mean, I'm reminded of Psalm 46:10. Be still and know that I am God. And you know, there's so many verses in the Bible that talk about God fighting our battles for us.

And we need only to be still. Um, it's so hard because I want to figure everything out and I want to be a part of it and do that to just let God do that. How do we what are some practical things we can do for us doers to trust in the invisible? >> You know, even as you were talking, John, I'm just I'm praying for you.

I'm asking God to do things in your heart that only he can do. uh you know, we're kind of pressured um into even even this having conversation knowing that it's recorded. There's almost like this pressure like say something profound. Um, even this morning as I was praying, I really felt God was impressing on me that I need to believe less in my speech and more in my prayer.

M >> uh in other words, you know, those who are listening or watching, there's just this weird thing going on where you're listening or watching because you want to hopefully I'll say something profound and you can grab a hold of it and at some point if if I'm believing that and and don't don't take this the wrong way.

I'm not saying that God doesn't give us gifts. Obviously, the Holy Spirit right now could be speaking through me and that's what I hope for and that he manifests in this way. But do we believe in even right now that as I'm trying to not think about you and just thinking about the throne and I'm saying God would you just dispense or release or just lovingly give grace to everyone that's listening because I is it beyond words?

Is there a groaning? Is there this spiritual? Yes. Jesus, please keep interceding for them. Holy Spirit, keep groaning for them with words too with groanings too deep for words. God, just bless them. Bless them this moment. This moment like do you believe in the power of that that simple prayer?

Um is that what you hunger for? Oh, I just want someone who knows the Lord to just lay hands on me and pray for me. You know, last night at our prayer gathering, just people are going around laying hands on each other and praying. And I'm just just thrilled cuz I'm going, God, we want your presence here.

We want to see this power. And I believe something happened. and and maybe we hunger for this awesome service, you know, sermon, worship set, singer, preacher, and because of that, we're not experiencing this miraculous life change that just comes from this interaction with the Lord and just from a simple reading of the word and his scriptures.

And um so I think guys like me, we can feel pressure when we get on a stage or get on a podcast or interview. And that's why I shared with you I don't really do this a lot. Um cuz I don't like who I become when I feel pressured to say something or say something profound.

And I know I have power over that. I know that. No, it's my choice. Maybe I'm just too weak and I give into that pressure and then I don't even like how I sound when I'm trying to say something that's uh pleasing to the ear or intelligent or something they've never heard before.

Um, sometimes I look, you know, I'll see like a clip of me and I'm like I don't I don't like that I wasn't spiritfilled at that moment. >> Mhm. You know, Francis, as you're as you're talking, I'm feeling the presence of the Lord. You know, I I know you're you're in a different state in a different part of the country.

You're on you're in the West Coast. I'm on I'm here in Orlando and and on the east coast, but there is no distance in the Holy Spirit. And what you are feeling and what you are sensing, I'm feeling it too. And I'm getting a little overwhelmed honestly because there's times where you feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit where you need to repent and do things.

But what I'm feeling right now, what I'm hoping and believing and praying that everybody watching this at whatever whenever they're watching or listening to this that they're feeling this love being poured over them. As you were as you were talking, I was just feeling that because that is my desire and I know I'm having a hard time receiving that the way that God wants to pour out.

It's like when you try to give somebody a gift and they just have a hard time receiving it and it makes you feel a certain way. I don't ever want to be that way with God. And >> it's what's happening in this conversation right now is is I feel a holy moment. >> I really do. you know, as as you say like you you want to feel that that's your desire.

A lot of what compelled me to write the book was realizing this is God's desire. Like he wants me to know. He wants me to know that I'm loved by him. >> And I I logically even go, God, I don't know what more you could do for me.

I mean, you you proved it on the cross so clearly. What kind of holy God sacrifices and and suffers himself for me. Everything I read in scripture is there's a it's so that we would be his inheritance. Like he desires me. He wants me. It's molded by him so loving the world.

That's the first verse we memorized. And yet and he he just it's because of his he's rich in mercy and his great love for wi with which he loved us. It's this is the motivating factor and I don't know how we could say it more clearly. And then on top of that I just think about my life. >> God you took me from a wreck of a person.

And I mean, when I was in college, I just thought, gosh, I'm supposed to know you and that look at the sin in my life and the way he's restored and loved and blessed. I go, God, I don't know anyone you've blessed like this. So, I I I don't know what more you could have done.

And so the fact that there's still doubt in me is kind of repulsive to me. I go, God, I don't want to be that person. Um, and you don't want me to be that person. And for everyone that's listening or watching, there's this God in heaven that wants you to believe in his love for you.

And as much as you want it yourself, I just rest in the fact that God wants this for you. Wow. It's Zephaniah 3:17. The Lord rejoices over us with singing and with gladness. Like >> it's hard to accept that God is rejoicing over us, >> but we need to we need to accept that and receive that. >> Yeah.

And I I I So we're living in a very interesting time where I've never seen anything like nothing close to this where every word is scrutinized. So you feel this pressure to speak and even speak quickly and answer everyone's questions and at the same time you say one word wrong um and someone else will uh critique publicly um judge your motives, your theology, everything else based upon every word is scrutinized. um by humans, >> fallible humans.

Um it's one thing to be scrutinized by the Lord where he says every careless word is going to be judged and we need to take that seriously. But then when you have humans with impure motives, we all have impure motives, fallen motives, um you just keep like feeling like everyone's after you.

And so that type of mindset and conditioning that I think is at the root demonic makes it harder for you to believe in a God who isn't looking and waiting to pounce on you. >> Oh, John, you said this wrong. Or John, you know, you're you're overspiritualizing or you're going off of your feelings. or you know, you're you're so used to that that that you can start to look at God that way.

And and so then to believe that no, he's a God who's for you. He's a God who's singing over you. He's a God who's like, Francis, I don't know what more I can do to show you I love you. I desire I'm for you. And if I'm for you, who cares who's against you?

I'm for you. But we're so not used to people being for you. Especially in the church. The church is the worst place for that. It's like people that are trying their hardest to serve the Lord and everything else. And and meanwhile, you've got just all sorts of individuals that believe that they're the only ones that have truth.

And so go ahead. Go ahead, John. Say something. Say something wrong. and I'm going to blast it cuz I am not for you. I am for my little group and their theology. You say one thing. I am not for you. I don't pray for you. I don't love you.

And so you start to go, gosh, is this the way God is? Not even consciously. And so then you read these passages and you're going, "Okay, God, help me believe this. My own family doesn't feel this way about me. My own father didn't feel this way. My own church doesn't feel this way.

And so I'm supposed to believe in this God. So somehow we are supposed to go be his ambassadors and you know talk about no I'm for you. He's for you. I love you. Um gosh let me gently correct you when you're off. Let me humbly with all humility and gentleness like Ephesians 4 says, you know, let me uh bear with you in love because that's the way God does it.

And I have not been faithful to being that example. I'm trying to be more and more like that. Um because if we don't if we're not like that, then we're just adding to this fuel to the enemy's fire of the accuser. Um and we start believing that God is that way when it's really Satan is that way.

You know, it's like, you know, oh, Job only loves you because of this. You know, it's like we so much more >> like him than we do God who's like this is my beloved son and he's one, hey, have you considered my servant Job? >> You know, it's Anyways, I didn't mean to go off on that tangent, but I >> I'm blessed by that tangent for sure.

One of the questions that I've been wanting to ask you is something that I love just asking anybody that has been walking with the Lord for for a long time. Um, >> you know, if you could go back in time and visit visit a young version of yourself, what advice would you give yourself and what's going on that you'd want to receive that?

And I I know that something like this actually kind of happened to you recently >> that you went back and reread >> for the for an audio version of Crazy Love and then so something amazing came out of that, but can you kind of I kind of threw a multi-part question in there, but can can you tell us what you would give younger Francis? >> Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's it's true. So, I read uh Crazy Love for the first time in like 15 years cuz he had to re-record the audio version. But um as I read it, I thought, "Oh, wow. I'm such a different person now. I still believe those things, but there's so much more.

And do I need to rewrite the book? Do I need to?" And that's where beloved came out of. But I guess if I could go back I think the most important thing if I could go back to let's see 18year-old Francis you know I would say make sure you keep growing in the knowledge of his love.

That isn't a elementary thing like oh you know that he loves you now move on >> to deeper truths. No, that is a deep truth that you need to know more deeply and to grow in as you learn about these because I was secure as a high school student in the love of Christ.

It was later my Bible college and seminary training that took me to these other things where we treated the love of God like a an elementary truth that come on those seeker friendly churches will teach that. Let's move on um and explain why the gifts don't exist anymore.

Uh, let's go to some deeper. Let's go to the meat of why everyone else is wrong and we're the only ones with correct theology. Um, and I would go back and go, gosh, don't don't lose sight of relationship. gonna lose sight of like just enjoying him and growing in that enjoyment.

And you know, we we would always say like this isn't religion, this is relationship, and God wants to know you. And but then all the things we do kind of pull us away from that relationship. even in the church. It really whatever thing. And I wish I I wish I had just known that I would wrestle so much where it' be so easy to drift into works and action and proving yourself and um and how quickly the enemy can get you to not believe that God loves you and the in you.

And so I would just if there w if there was a way to just implant that truth in my heart that I have to keep growing uh and believing in his love more. Um because that's Paul's prayers for the Ephesians really opened my eyes. the fact that he's talking to believers, those who are faithful in Christ Jesus, you know, who love the saints, and he's saying, "I'm praying that you would know the love of Christ that's beyond comprehension.

I'm praying that you would know how wide and long and high and deep. I'm praying that he would strengthen you by the Holy Spirit in your inner being." You know, it's it's so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. You It's like, whoa, wait, I thought that happened at the point of my conversion.

Why are you praying for these strong believers that you say are faithful in the Lord? And so I I guess it's just okay. Let's let's never deviate from that. Okay. Cuz as great as your life has been, it could have been infinitely better. >> Jesus loves me. This I know.

For the Bible tells me so. >> Little ones to him belong. They are weak, but he is strong. >> Yes, Jesus loves me. >> Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me. The Bible tells me so. You said earlier that we sometimes treat the love of God as just an elementary part of our experience with him. >> But >> what >> if you take away the melody of that and you really believe those words, >> it does something into you. >> It really, really does.

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 >> Yeah. It's, you know, even as you're quoting it, there's just something about that re-emphasis of that phrase. Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me. Um, I don't know who authored that or whatever, but it's, you know, it's like that old hymn that says, "We're prone to wander, Lord.

I feel it. pruned to leave the God I love. Here's my heart, Lord. Take and seal it. You know, like, uh, steal this. Put that mark on it so it can't be open and the enemy can't, you know, like seal this. Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me.

Uh, yeah, these and maybe that I don't know if it was a kid song when it was written. I know nothing about the history of that psalm, but it's just what the enemy will do >> is gone. Oh, look at John and Francis quoting Jesus loves me. Wow, that's real mature.

Um, I could just see like my old my old classmates going, "Yep, there he goes." You know, little childish Francis. Well, yeah. You know what? And I want to grow in this childlike faith. I wanna the older I get, I do want to become more like a child and just take these truths and go, "Yes, Jesus loves me."

And it is it is it is simple. Um but I I pray for that depth that that that Paul prays for. >> Yeah. Pastor Francis, would you pray for me? Would you pray for the people that have been watching and listening to this as well that we would really embrace our identity as beloved?

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 Father, you as you sit on your throne and the angels adore you and are loved by you and the saints are worshiping you. God, we know that this is not flesh and blood. We know that there are these demonic forces, cosmic powers over this present darkness. They're blinding us.

They're tricking us. They're fooling us. God, we want your bride, your church, just to to know that they're loved. God, despite how others have treated us, Lord, you are not man that you would lie. You promised this love. Break through that darkness. Open our eyes. All of us, God, in a moment from your throne.

Would you just pour that grace? We thank you that you are rich in mercy like you love to forgive. You're abounding in steadfast love. It's overflowing. So may we feel it. May we know it in our hearts. Enlighten the eyes of our hearts, Lord. Oh God, right now, would your Holy Spirit just give us power, strengthen us in our inner being so that Christ may dwell in our hearts through faith.

We want to abide, dwell in that love so that the enemy cannot just take us away and get us back into works or get us back into doubt or shame. Come Lord Jesus please for all who are listening in Jesus name I pray. Amen. >> Amen and amen.

Pastor Francis, thank you so much for taking the time to share your heart behind this this powerful message of beloved, that we are beloved and we can be loved by God for sure. Thank you so much. Thanks, John.